Investing Unscripted Podcast 87: Andrew & Dave from Investing for Beginners Podcast

A deeper conversation with two longtime investing podcasters

Investing Unscripted Podcast 87: Andrew & Dave from Investing for Beginners Podcast

Note: All transcripts are edited for clarity. We may earn commissions from some (not all) links. Thanks for the scratch.

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Jason Hall: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Investing Unscripted where we ask and answer the hard questions about investing. Sometimes we ask other people to give their answers too. I'm Jason Hall joined as usual by the voice of the people, Jeff Santoro. Hey buddy. 

Jeff Santoro: Hey, how are you, my friend? 

Jason Hall: I'm good. I'm well. We've all had some weather.

We've got some guests on. We'll introduce them in a little bit. They're just going to have to sit in the green room and finish their cocktails and we'll invite them out. 

Jeff Santoro: Yeah. We have a sweet green room too. Lots of snacks. 

Jason Hall: I hope the bartender made good martinis for you guys. They're back there right now. But you know, we're having to make up the recording of this because of a lot of bad weather people have had.

So by the time our listeners hear this, we're going to be a little more than a week removed from the bad weather. I hope everybody made it through okay.

Jeff, who are we talking to this week? 

Jeff Santoro: So we have Dave and Andrew from the Investing For Beginners podcast. We'll, we'll get them introduced here in a moment more formally, but I want to do some quick [00:01:00] housekeeping for our listeners.

A couple of our listeners have sent in their picks for our investing portfolio contest in 2024. So I just wanted to let everyone know that for those of you who have done that, it appears on our spreadsheet now. 

There's a tab for listeners who have sent in ideas if you sent in at least three. We put you as your own portfolio. If you sent in one, we just kind of pushed you all together into a combined listener portfolio. I'll keep accepting them for the next maybe week or two. And then after that, we'll just kind of cut it off. The date you, the starting price, if you send one in is the day you send it to me.

So there's no- 

Jason Hall: I'm going to, I'm going to object, Jeff. I'm going to object because I don't want people cherry picking because we are almost two weeks into the, into the year. If you pick a stock that's fallen a bunch since the beginning of the year, we're giving you the opening price on the first day of the year.

That's that's, I'm sorry. We're not. You can't cheat, people. 

Jeff Santoro: So all the ones we've gotten so far have been like the first couple of days of the year. So I think we're all right. We're okay.[00:02:00] So anyway, I just wanted to mention that those are there. 

And then, we haven't mentioned as many times as we probably should have over the last couple weeks to encourage people to reach out to us with feedback, show ideas, if they want to submit portfolio ideas. You can reach us on Twitter @InvestingPod. You can email us at [email protected]

And also just remember we have a YouTube channel. We have a newsletter. If you could subscribe to those, we'd appreciate it. And as always, ratings and reviews of the show on the podcast apps is super helpful and appreciated as is sharing the show with your friends and enemies and letting them know that it's a wonderful thing for them to listen to. 

All right, enough of me. Jason, I already gave their names, but why don't you introduce our guests and ask the first question to get our interview going here? 

Jason Hall: Yeah. So very excited to welcome some of our favorite podcasting heroes. Some people that encouraged us both in this world because they've been doing this for a while. We've got Dave and Andrew from Investing [00:03:00] For Beginners. And what we want to do, guys, we're going to welcome you. And we want to let you give some of your background first.

Dave, you talk a lot. Andrew, you go first. 

Andrew Sather: You know, all right. That's a good way to intro me for sure.

The way I guess I got started in investing was I just turned into a dork from day one. I picked up an investing book and started reading it. And ever since, I guess nothing's changed.

Jason Hall: Alright, Dave.

Dave Ahern: How did I get started investing? It's actually, I got a job as a banker at Wells Fargo. While I was going through the interview process they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. And after thinking about it for a while, I thought maybe investing might be interesting. 

I was lucky and had an investment advisor that worked in the branch and he kind of took me under his wing and I really, really fell in love with it. He actually introduced me to the Motley Fool. Which was the first site that I used to help me kind of learn the basics of investing.

And then I found Andrew's blog not too long [00:04:00] after that. And I was hooked and I've been, I've been doing it since. 

Jason Hall: That's remarkable. That, , it's interesting, right? Because Jeff, there's a little bit of a kind of mirroring of our relationship and podcast and what Andrew and Dave have.

I've been doing this for a long time. A lot of it professionally for the Motley Fool. Jeff, you found that. You didn't have a pro in your back pocket, but you found me through the Motley Fool. And here we are, Dave, you found Andrew on the interwebs and you guys got together.

So the real question that I have for both of you, I think this is just, it's so compelling to me and something that Jeff and I are probably going to really need to dig into at some point and be introspective and think about truly the true reason why.

What happened, when did you get to a point that you wanted to, Dave, I want you to go first here and then Andrew, cause your story goes back a little further. When did you decide that you had something compelling to give to the investing world?

Dave Ahern: FOr me, it was when I was sitting at my [00:05:00] desk, having a parade of people come by me that knew nothing about money or investing and had saved nothing, didn't know where to start, didn't know where to begin. Some people had money. A lot of people didn't. 

And they all knew that it was kind of like, you know, you shouldn't smoke. Everybody knows they should invest, but they don't do it. They don't know where to start. They didn't have an impetus and the bank frankly had almost nothing that I could give to them, unless they had a certain amount of money. And so because of that, it just led me to, you know, reading all the stuff that I did, I wanted to start trying to educate people.

And so I started a blog on my own, and that's kind of how I got started. 

Andrew Sather: I guess for me it feels like talking about the prehistoric times. Back then, it was like, you had to pay $4. 95 a trade and people were excited because that was, that was a big discount compared to where it was a few years prior. 

Jason Hall: I can remember when it was $10!

Andrew Sather: Oh, you remember when it was $10? One-up me. [00:06:00] Perfect. So I just, I just really remember the environment back then felt really close to the vest. Like either you're supposed to talk to a professional or you were supposed to already know what you were doing. I feel like even the culture of the internet back then wasn't as generous and people expressing this, this need to educate people that wasn't really a thing people were doing. Everybody was kind of, it was, it just felt like an environment you had to figure it out yourself. 

So I said, I'm figuring this out myself, I'm going to start writing about it. And so that's how my blog started. 

Jeff Santoro: So I, before we move on, I just need to share, you guys were gracious enough to have us on your podcast about a month or two ago. So if people want to check out Investing For Beginners podcast, you can, you should do that generally, but you can also find an episode that Jason and I were on and I shared the story then, but I want to share it now before we move on. 

It's fun having you guys on here and being on your show because you guys were one of the first podcasts I found [00:07:00] back in 2020 when I got to that point, like we've all had at some point where we just clicked and we became obsessed with learning about investing. 

You guys were one of the first things I found to listen to. So it was super helpful at the beginning of my journey. So I encourage anyone listening to check it out and we'll talk more about where to find the podcast and all that later on. 

You guys have been doing your pod, you know, speaking about sharing what you have with the with the greater world. You've been doing your podcast for around six years now. Do I have that correct? So you've seen a lot of craziness, especially the last three of those six years. 

So Talk to us a little bit about over the time you've done the podcast, what have you seen change in the world of investing and how has that informed maybe the things you talk about or how you handle putting the podcast out each week?

Andrew Sather: Oh man, there's, there's, there's a lot. I feel like when we first started the show, that seemed like the boring kind of Procter and Gamble's and Johnson and Johnsons of the world. Those seem to be really in vogue and people really [00:08:00] liked that. That stability of those companies. 

And kind of on the tail end of that, then you started to see the big tech giants because everybody thought, oh, you know, that's not sustainable. And they just kept proving over and over again, Facebook, Google Apple. They just proved over and over again that, yeah, we're for real. These growth numbers are real. We're going to keep doing it. So just from a economy standpoint, I feel like a ton has changed and that's kind of crazy to think about.

It's not even been a decade and that's not even talking about everything that's happened since you got into the game, Jeff, with, you know, the pandemic and all the other things we've seen change in a very fast time period. So it is wild. It's a crazy time to be alive, right? 

Jason Hall: Yeah. But it kind of always is though, right? I mean, that's the cool thing about investing. And I think it's one of the values that, Dave, I think the biggest thing that your show brings and hopefully our show does as well is kind of, you know, help people find that rudder through the shifting seas. Dave?

Dave Ahern: Yeah, it,[00:09:00] we have seen so many ups and downs in the last three years. We've gone from the world is ending to everything to the moon to the stock market's going to crash completely. Now, where are we? And it's just this yo- yo of emotions over the last three years. 

And one of the things that Andrew and I have really tried hard is to just try to keep everybody calm and try to just keep steady, doing what you need to do to try to find the best investments. And, you know, the tide is going to go out. You're going to see who's not swimming. 

But you're also going to find great companies and take advantage of those downturns when you can. When Visa dropped in the pandemic, I pounced all over it. And so those kinds of things, I think, are timeless. And that's what we've tried really hard to kind of stick to is the more you read about stock market history, the more you realize that it's kind of the same as ever, as Morgan Housel says in his great book, it's things change. But they don't really change. This time it's not different. 

So, that's what we've really tried to [00:10:00] preach over the last three years. Or the last six, really.

Jason Hall: Yeah. One of the things that I think it's really important when it comes to like thinking about helping other people find their path forward and to remain calm. It's talking about mistakes, talking about how to learn from those mistakes. Jeff especially loves it when we do that because he gets to make fun of me. So I know that's- 

Jeff Santoro: To be clear I like talking about your mistakes, right? Not my mistakes. 

Jason Hall: Yeah. You and my wife, buddy. You and my wife. 

So, apropos of that, we all have our successes from, the pandemic crash. Visa is a great example of, it's the rails of the global economy. Guess what? Eventually the economy is going to come back. Visa is going to be a big deal. Jeff and I both, we've talked about some of our bigger winners, but let's talk about the mistakes. 

I would love to hear from both of you. Some of the mistakes maybe even during kind of the low part of the pandemic, but maybe especially during when we saw the market kind of go bananas before we all realized that eventually somebody was going to [00:11:00] turn the music off.

Andrew Sather: Yeah. I mean, I could start. One that sticks out in my head is a company called Griffin Corporation. And that one's been frustrating because I bought it and it stayed relatively flat while everything went higher, and then I sold it. And then it decided to explode higher right after that. 

And you know, to me, that's that's one of those, it's very frustrating where I had the narrative right. I had the narrative that home building was going to continue to take off. It wasn't a fad. And I thought, you know, when some of the companies along that value chain would prosper like Griffin. They do, you know, garden tools and things like that, that people will have to buy once they have homes.

So I ended up being right on the idea and then wrong on the timing of the company and also being wrong about how the market would interpret something they've done. 

So I, you know, it's, it's one of those things where I think every once in a while you buy a stock and then after the honeymoon period, you look at it and you're like, Oh, I really do [00:12:00] this? And that's what it was for me. And especially painful because of the way it underperformed compared to the rest of the market.

So that's been something where I'm trying to be a little more disciplined. I, usually try to buy things with a higher return on invested capital, ROIC. And in this case, I kind of overlooked that for this company, and that ended up not working out well.

Jason Hall: Dave, what about you?

Dave Ahern: Oh boy. How long do you got? So, here we go. I got, I'll give you one, I'll give you one decision, poor decision, and maybe one of omission. 

So the poor decision was I bought PayPal at its absolute heights because I was going down this rabbit hole of payments and I thought that the way we were going to spend our money was going to drastically change. And it may someday, but it's not here yet and PayPal was going to be the everything wallet. And that was their mantra.

And so I bought it at like 50 PE ish or so, [00:13:00] something like that. So it was trading around 300 bucks a share. And so you're looking at a bag holder here, you know. It's what? $60 a share now, something like that. So, I did average down for a little bit. So my cost basis has come down, but still I'm down 50 some percent from my initial investment in the company.

Jason Hall: And so you averaged down, but increased your losses.

Dave Ahern: Yes, pretty much. Yep. I watered the weed. So, the exact opposite thing to do. So exact opposite thing to do. 

So anyway you know, it was just, it was a poor decision. I didn't understand the market correctly. I didn't understand really what was going on and paying that high of a price for anything is was foolish. And so that was a poor mistake. 

The omission one was a few years ago. I got interested in a company called Novo Nordisk and I did all the research. I didn't feel like I knew the pharma industry well enough, but I felt like I really knew the company well and what they're doing. And they had a great pipeline and Ozempic and Wegovy [00:14:00] were not public yet, but they were coming public. 

And I passed on it because I didn't feel like I felt like I knew enough about the pharmaceutical industry to get invested in it. And now it's up like, I don't know, 45 percent since I started looking at it. So that's a sin of omission, if you will.

Jeff Santoro: I want to ask you guys, maybe some lessons that you learned that you've taken forward into 2024. But I just wanted to piggyback off of what you both said, because it reminded me of how much I think I sounds like you guys, and maybe Jason, too. And I know, certainly me . 

I think during the pandemic, a lot of us started to think that it was going to be this life changing moment that shifted a lot of the way we did things like to your point about PayPal being, I remember talk of like, is cash dead? Because no one wanted to physically hand cash to people anymore, but there were, that's just an example. There were all these different things that the pandemic was supposed to change forever. 

And the reality was, as soon as people could go back to the way things were, we pretty much completely did. I mean, all of the things we [00:15:00] thought would change forever. Didn't like, people thought there'd never be another conference in person and no one would ever get on a plane for a meeting.

Everyone would just do online. And I'm sure there is more of that, but I don't know, it's sort of unrelated to the question. But that was a big learning for me from the pandemic, which is, big black swan events like that can pull things forward, but I don't know that they necessarily change things permanently.

Jason Hall: So Dave, you mentioned Morgan Housel's latest book, Same as Ever. But Jeff, I think that's so important because it's a good foundational piece of knowledge. When you expect the outcome for an investment to be based on people doing something differently, sometimes yeah, but 99 percent of the time, no. 

Jeff Santoro: Or, yeah, eventually. 

Like, I think about smartphones and the iPhone and things like that. Like, I think it's easy to think back and misremember that like the iPhone came out and everything changed. 

It really didn't. Like, it came out and then it was probably several years before it, it really [00:16:00] became, you know, the thing where you could look on a subway at everyone and they're staring at a device. That didn't happen in 2007 when the iPhone came out.

But in hindsight, those timelines get compressed and it feels like it was this singular moment. 

So I know for me, like I made the mistake probably the most during 2021 of just buying things that were too expensive. 

Jason Hall: I can confirm. He did. 

Jeff Santoro: You did too, sir. 

Jason Hall: I can confirm. He did. 

Jeff Santoro: But so that's like my learning. That's the thing I'm taking into 2024 and trying to be very careful about, especially considering how much the market ran up in November and December of 2023. 

So I'm curious for you two guys. Are there any lessons you learned over the last couple of years of craziness, whether it was the big run up or the bull or the bear market that followed it that's changing the way you're thinking about your personal investing as we head into 2024?

Andrew Sather: So yeah, you mentioned the 2021 pain too much. And now I'm reminded of the ones I apparently blocked out of my memory.

So for me, the [00:17:00] ones that behavior I thought had permanently changed was Domino's pizza and Target, where I thought that their recent successes were going to continue indefinitely. And particularly with Target, you saw they had a huge benefit from everything and then it really came down.

So, you know, what, how am I taking that lesson in 2024? I feel like the lessons just don't stop coming. So at this point, it's really just trying to, I like that we're talking about mistakes, because I feel like there's so much valuable learning that can come from mistakes. And when we talk about the overpain in particular, for me, It's really trying to think really hard about if a company has profits that have exploded, is that sustainable or not?

And the stock pick I just did for January did have an explosion in profits. So I might be relearning this lesson again, but I'm [00:18:00] hoping that I've done the work and I've built off past mistakes to understand that there's not a lot of black and white when it comes to stock picking. 

There's almost always exceptions to the rule and there's a lot of nuance to the mistakes and also the successes.

So hopefully, you know, we don't get everything a hundred percent correct in 2024, but hopefully for all of us as investors, we're able to pick up more nuance from the lessons. And that's what I'm trying to take into the new year. 

Jeff Santoro: I like that. What about you, Dave? 

Dave Ahern: Yeah, I would, I would echo what Andrew was saying. I think we both have worked really hard to really understand not only the valuation of the company or like what the, what's a good price to pay for it. But also the word gets overused a little bit, but the quality, you know, the goodness of the business and how durable the earnings that the company creates are and how long those can last.

And I think once you start to kind of, you know, I credit Charlie Munger for [00:19:00] this kind of. I read a lot of his stuff during the pandemic and in the aftermath, and he really started to influence the way that I would think about companies. Before it was more about just the numbers and trying to find the cheapest things that I could, and then it kind of morphed into trying to find, you know, pretty good prices for things that were great companies, because I feel like those are the ones that will stand the test of time. And that's really what what we try to find the best that we can find. 

But is it perfect? No. And is there a nuance to it? Oh yeah. There's tons and tons of, you know, the, our favorite phrase on the show is, it depends. Every company is different and you have to take each company as a separate standing.

You can't compare Costco to Walmart to Amazon, even though they're kind of in the same business. But they are all different beasts. And so you have to look at them in a different way. 

Jason Hall: You have to be willing to adjust with the change that happens organically with businesses over time too, right? Even Amazon today is not Amazon [00:20:00] five years ago, if we're being honest. And I think that's a really important thing to remember. It's one of my favorite things about investing. 

This is an aside before the next question. Is, investing is one of those rare things that you can be utterly wrong about your thesis and still make a ton of money, right? You just, because you bought a great company and they did some other things, right, that you weren't necessarily planning. So that's a fun thing about it. 

One of my favorite things about doing a podcast with Jeff is we talk a lot during the week. And honestly, I think we talk more now about investing, like the kind of some of the big things, the big picture things, because we're thinking about content and topics that might be interesting for investors and things that are important to talk about. And then we put in the work to plan the show. 

And as a result, it's certainly had a fundamental impact on me as an investor too. And I think it would be really interesting to hear, Andrew start with you.

How has doing a podcast, running a podcast affected your personal investing, your [00:21:00] process, the decisions you make building frameworks? I would really love to hear your thoughts on that. 

Andrew Sather: It is the ultimate reminder, and there's really something to be said about getting back to the basics. Because, and maybe I'm more guilty of this than others, but memory can deceive and things can be forgotten. 

Jason Hall: Oh, your brain will lie to you. 

Andrew Sather: All the time. Yeah. And so, you know, to give context, I do a monthly newsletter with stock picks and I've had times or talking to Dave about the different companies and it was like, well, you know, even though I'm looking at this company, I literally just talked on the podcast about, you know, paying too much for a company or something or, you know, there will be these times or if I'm writing out the newsletter and there's just times where the content can be very timely for me personally, and it's good to remember that, all right, at a certain point, you want to kind of step out and try new things and try new investment ideas. But there's also the [00:22:00] fundamentals, the back to the basic principles that you really have to try really hard to not stray from because those are going to keep you safe. 

To your point, Jason, earlier in the conversation, things change, but there are some things that are timeless and those timeless principles, you know, invest for the longterm, make sure you have proper diversification. These things can save you from a lot of trouble. Having a podcast where I have to tell beginners to do that really helps me stay grounded in that.

And I'm sure it's kept me from a ton, a ton more mistakes than I already make.

Jason Hall: Dave, how about you? 

Dave Ahern: Oh, boy. Again, how long do you have it? 

It really has. It really has helped solidify my learnings and my foundation, my structure, my portfolio construction, the way I think about companies. I'm very lucky just like you guys are. I have this really smart guy that I get to talk to every single week and we talk about stocks, you know, a lot. And so when we go on the show, 

Jason Hall: I feel [00:23:00] so, so sorry for Jeff right now.

Dave Ahern: I just want to say, when you go on the show, it just, you know, when we record, it just reinforces those learnings. And it's like, I was talking to John Rotonti a while back and he was talking about putting in the reps. 

And that's what it, that's what it feels like to me when we're talking about this stuff, you know, it reinforces. What is return on equity? What is, you know, earnings per share? How do you calculate those things? 

Those are basic fundamental financial terms, but if you don't know what they are and then you have to think about them, you have to go back to the book all the time and remind yourself. But because we're talking about it every day, all that stuff just gets burned into your memory.

And so those things don't become the focus of your analysis or trying to learn more about a company. It's about learning about the business. Like how do they make money? How does the management treat the shareholders? You know, things that are maybe a little more gray or a little more esoteric, and it gets away from focusing on some of the more basic things.

And, you know, I come from a [00:24:00] sport background and playing baseball for many, many years. You know, we would spend every practice working on fundamentals. Catching the ball, hitting the ball, throwing the ball. These are things that baseball players do from the time they're little to the time they, you know, go to the Hall of Fame. And, but they still do it every single day because it's that fundamental and they got to be able to do it.

And so- 

Jason Hall: And that's often what separates the elite performers, the ones that maintain for years, is they continue to do those basic things over and over and over. And it's the same for investors. And for us, you know what it is. Reading the 10k, reading the proxy statement, being disciplined about what the price you're willing to pay, not being a knucklehead and chasing a great idea and ignoring the fundamentals. And then sitting on your hands a lot of time, you know?

Sorry, Dave. I didn't mean to cut you off. No, I totally meant to cut you off. 

Dave Ahern: Preach on, brother. Preach on. 

Jason Hall: But I had to say it. I had to say it. 

Dave Ahern: Good. I'm glad you did. Cause it was worthwhile to say. I'm done. 

Jeff Santoro: Yeah. I also think too, like, there's a lot of truth in you don't really know something [00:25:00] until you can teach it to someone else. So I think, , that's not that necessarily Jason and I don't, we don't think of- 

Jason Hall: So apparently I don't know banks because Jeff still hates banks, right? 

Jeff Santoro: I hate banks.

Like you guys are, you know, having listened to your show for a while now. So, you know, not every episode is like this, but there are some episodes that are like, all right, we're going to talk about, whatever, EBITDA, and you break it down and you explain it.

And to be able to do that, concisely and clearly on a podcast, you have to have it really clear in your head. And if you do, it's the reps. If you do that enough times, those things really do solidify. So just like, yeah, go ahead. 

Dave Ahern: Can I touch on something you said? So that teaching idea that you were talking about. When I was, again, going back to sports, that's one of the things that all my coaches made us do. Because they would teach us a skill, and then they would have us go teach the youngers. And his reasoning was that if you know it well enough to teach it to somebody, that's how you learn it better. 

And so when I look at the podcast that it, you know, I feel like it's awesome that we can help other [00:26:00] people. But it's also helping me too, because I'm, it's reinforcing the learning that I'm learning. Because if I can teach it to Jeff, then I can teach it to anybody.

Right. And so that's, I think that's a very important lesson that I've learned from the podcast. 

Jeff Santoro: Yeah, no, I totally agree. So, let's move away from talking about, the ins and outs of podcasting and let's move towards other resources.

So I think one of the things that's interesting when, when you do craft or create content around investing, I think it can sometimes be a challenge to make sure that you're still learning yourself.

So I'm curious what other resources you guys have at your, that you go to for your own learnings. Whether it's another podcast, whether it's a newsletter you subscribe to, or just other investors you speak with. I'm just curious, like where else you're getting your learning in and helping you do your reps?

Dave Ahern: Okay. So, boy, I got, I listen to a ton of podcasts, Investing Unscripted the Investors Podcast you know, Canadian, the Canadian (Investor) podcast. I just, I listen to a ton of [00:27:00] podcasts. 

I read a lot. I try to read a financial statement every day, whether it's a 10 K, whether it's a 10 Q, whether it's an earnings report, I try to read one every single day because I learned something from those businesses every single day. 

I read a lot of Substacks. I read a lot of Seeking Alpha and I'm on Twitter and LinkedIn a lot. And those are both, all of those are great learning resources. Especially, you know, I know Twitter can get a bad rap, but I've done, I've worked really hard to clean my timeline so I don't have to deal with things I don't want to deal with. And then I can just focus on the people that can teach me stuff. And that's super helpful for me. 

Jeff Santoro: Yeah, there's a ton of free, there's a ton of free stuff on the internet, especially Twitter. But there's a ton of really good free stuff. You just have to, you have to be discerning with what you follow and what you choose to read.

What about you, Andrew? 

Andrew Sather: Subscription wise, subscribe to the Wall Street Journal. Subscribe to Ben Thompson's newsletter. He's like, he's wonderful. Oh, so good on big tech and just tech in general. The Science of Hitting [00:28:00] subscribe to him, go Microsoft. 

I also listen to some podcasts. I really like Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy. He's got such good guests on there and some of the interviews on there are fantastic. 

Jason Hall: It seems like just a decent human being too, right? 

Andrew Sather: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Does seem that way. I like David Rubenstein is somebody I've started to follow lately. He has a book called How to Invest.

And he was a, I don't know if he was the founder, but definitely a big part of Carlisle Group before they went public. And his network is just insane of, it really opened my eyes, that book in particular, all the different ways people can invest and people do invest. It's not just stocks and bonds. 

So I feel like just kind of on the topic of books, those have been instrumental for me since day one. My audible subscription has probably given me the highest ROI out of anything I paid for. And so really, if you can just, if Charlie Munger's taught us one [00:29:00] thing, and by the way, his book, the book about him, Poor Charlie's Almanac, that should be a must read, I think. 

Jason Hall: Yeah, there's an updated edition of that that just came out late last year. I think it's got a new foreword and some stuff, but-

Andrew Sather: I might have that one actually. I don't know. Mine's nice and shiny cause I got one recently. It's way too late to the game on that one. But he has a concept called standing on the shoulders of giants. And I think if you can, do that. 

And I like books because they're very timeless. And so you do get a lot of the tried and true proven principles. I think that can do wonders for investors. 

Jason Hall: So speaking of Audible, mostly investing in finance related stuff or also some fiction in there too?

Andrew Sather: I read my fiction, like with my eyeballs. My last fiction book I, was awesome because I went through 40 pages in like an hour.

I just, I just love, when I had asked my family, cause we do like a secret Santa and they were asking me what I want and I was like, fiction books, but please like not as many words on the [00:30:00] page. So they made fun of me thinking I wanted like large print, but really, like if I'm reading fiction, I want to get through it quick, you know, I don't want to read about you know, the sparkling spring water and how I was glistening off into it.

I don't have time for that. Give me, give me the action and let's move on. 

Jason Hall: The best thing that's happened to the publishing industry in the past 50 years is the ability to self publish. The worst thing that's happened in the, is the same thing, right? It really, really is. All right, well, let's let's move things along here.

I want to, Jeff and I, we, I want to do a lightning round, Jeff, but let's, before we do it, let's, let's talk about where people can find Dave and Andrew's stuff out there on the interwebs. I know you have a pretty active Twitter out there. It's what's the handle? 

Jason Hall: Cool. We'll have that, same as always, it'll be in the description. We'll have it in the transcript over at We'll definitely have that there.

Andrew, what about you? Are you [00:31:00] active on social? You've got, you're on Twitter, but I don't think you're super active. 

Andrew Sather: No, not really. I'm not active on social professionally at all. 

Jason Hall: There you go.

Andrew Sather: I do doom scroll on Instagram though. Like I get in a hole and I'll be stuck for like a half hour. 

Jason Hall: We all do. 

Jeff Santoro: Everyone does that. Yeah. 

Jason Hall: Yeah. Now , for the podcast, because it's not just the podcast. It's the podcast, but you also have a website, you have a newsletter, you have materials. Where can people find that? And what will they find? 

Andrew Sather: Podcast is the The Investing For Beginners Podcast - your Path to Financial Freedom. That's me and Dave just constantly trying to teach and reteach and do that over and over again, but we have great guests like you guys that were on the show and definitely give us a- 

Jason Hall: I think you said that wrong. You said you, you meant to say you have great guests and us guys. 

Andrew Sather: Yeah. 

Jason Hall: No, thank you. 

Jeff Santoro: And also, Jason.

Jason Hall: Well played. Sorry, but no, you do. It's a, you guys have topics you cover. You have guests pretty regularly that are on. 

Andrew Sather: Kind of just whenever we feel like it, you know, like we've had periods of [00:32:00] time where we had three months of guests and then six months without guests. So it's super random.

Jason Hall: But you know what? It's your podcast. You get to do that. 

Andrew Sather: That's true. Yeah. 

Jason Hall: Cool. All right. Well, we will have in the, like I said, in this show description and in the transcript, we'll have links to all of the different ways people can find you on the interwebs.

You guys of course are on all the major platforms for podcasts. So all you got to do is go into your app and search for the Investing For Beginners and you guys are going to come up. It's going to be easy to find you there. So. 

Jeff Santoro: All right. Yeah. Time for lightning round. So you don't have to answer these like insanely fast, but quick hits here, right?

Jason Hall: With the power of editing...

Jeff Santoro: That's right. We're just going to cut out all but three words for all of your answers anyway. So, all right, well, and we're going to call on you. So, you know who's coming. 

So Dave, this, this first one's for you. Favorite stock or stocks for 2024. 

Dave Ahern: Favorite stocks, I'm going to go with Visa and Adyen.

Jeff Santoro: Okay, quick elevator pitch on each one. Why are they your two favorites? 

Dave Ahern: Visa is the payment rails of the economy and [00:33:00] Adyen is the other payments rail for the economy. 

Jason Hall: Love it. Love it. Andrew, I want one stock from you. 

Andrew Sather: One stock. Perfect. I'm still pretty bullish on Pulte Group. I mentioned home builders earlier. They're just still too stupid cheap below 10 PE and I think it will pop, continue to pop this year. 

Jason Hall: I am drinking your tea, buddy. I'm right there with you on that. 

All right, Andrew, I got another one lined up for you. Make your, what is your Reckless Prediction for 2024? 

Andrew Sather: 2024 will be the return of the dividend. 

Jason Hall: Oh, I'm trembling. 

Andrew Sather: You said reckless. 

Jason Hall: I'm trembling. I love it. I love it. Dave, what about you? Make one too. 

Dave Ahern: The San Francisco Giants will win the National League West. 

Andrew Sather: Oh, that's... Now we've gotten into fantasy land. 

Jeff Santoro: We could have a, we should do a, really uninteresting to our audience, baseball podcast.

Jason Hall: Yeah, would be a blast. 

Dave Ahern: I would love that. The four of us would probably enjoy it.

Jeff Santoro: Yeah. No one else. Just.

Andrew Sather: Am I invited though? 

Jeff Santoro: Yeah. Are you a baseball [00:34:00] fan, or? 

Andrew Sather: Well, part of the like Galactic Empire here. Yeah. 

Jason Hall: He's oh, no. He's a Yankees fan. You're definitely invited.

Jeff Santoro: Yeah, absolutely. 

Jason Hall: Jeff, what's our next, what's our next lightning round question?

Jeff Santoro: Okay. We'll go back to Andrew for this one first. Do you think interest rates will fall in 2024? 

Andrew Sather: The consensus says yes. So I say yes, but I don't think it will fall as much as people think. 

Jeff Santoro: That's kind of my take on it too. What about you, Dave? 

Dave Ahern: I don't really care. 

Love it. Excellent. 

Jason Hall: That is an excellent, excellent, excellent answer.

Jeff Santoro: Okay. So now here's the followup. I guess for you, Andrew, because Dave didn't care.

If they do fall, will it be because of just regular old cuts by the Fed for no reason? Or do you think there will be a recession in 2024? 

Andrew Sather: I think it will be like a recession in certain parts of the economy. But I think some parts won't have a recession. 

Jeff Santoro: Okay. 

Andrew Sather: But who knows? I'm not a macro guy. So, you know, take that with a grain of salt. Super big grain of salt. 

Jeff Santoro: It's fine. The lightning round, it's, , no one's, just the four of us. No one's listening. It's all good. You can be as brave as you want.[00:35:00] 

All right. What is an episode, you guys can each answer this too. I don't really care about the order. What's an episode that you got, what's your favorite episode? Do you have a favorite episode of your podcast that you think people should, when they inevitably go check it out after hearing this interview with you guys, which episode should they start with? What's your favorite? 

Jason Hall: Say the episode with us

Andrew Sather: Well, yeah, he's just stole my joke. So thanks, Jason. Dave. Do you have one? I have one. I'm curious what you say. 

Dave Ahern: Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to throw out if you're a beginner, go back and listen to episode 42. That was one of the first back to the beginner series that we did. And I feel like that's a turning point in the podcast. I think that was a great show.

If you're not a beginner, then listen to the episode that we did with Jeff and Jason

Jeff Santoro: Beautiful. 

Andrew Sather: There you go. I I'm going to throw in IFB247. That was fun. Cause we looked at Apple and Tesla and tried to go back to the basics with it. So it was hopefully a good lesson there. 

Jason Hall: Now I'm just thinking about episode 42 that we did and I'm really disappointed that we didn't name it Life, the Universe, and Everything. If you're [00:36:00] a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan, it will make sense. 

Jeff Santoro: Both of those, both of those listeners got your joke Jason. 

Jason Hall: Both of them. Fair enough. They're both probably English too.

Okay, alright, so what is your favorite, excepting Jeff and myself of course, we don't, we don't want to bias this. 

Jeff Santoro: Right. 

Jason Hall: Who's your favorite, who's your favorite guest that you've had on the show? Dave? 

Dave Ahern: I'm gonna go with, I'm not, I can't pick two. I can't pick just one. So I'll go two. One was Jake Taylor. And the other one would be Brian Feroldi

Jason Hall: Yeah. We've had Brian on too, we haven't had Jake on yet. 

Andrew Sather: Yeah. I mean, now we're talking about picking your favorite stock, right? That's, that's really tough to do. We've had great people. It's been awesome. 

I would say also Brian Feroldi and Braden Dennis. Both those guys have been on our show a bunch and it's always fun talking to them.

Jason Hall: Okay. I want to encourage all of our listeners out there. If you don't subscribe to our newsletter with the transcript. I'm going to go find those episodes and I'm going to put the link in the transcript in this part of it. So anybody that wants to listen to those episodes, it'll be really easy to find it.

Just go to [00:37:00] and sign up for the newsletter. All you got to do, it's that easy. 

Jeff Santoro: I think that that wraps it up. We have, we answered all of our lightning round questions. We talked about the podcast. We, we got your thoughts on lessons learned from the past several years. 

So I think just to wrap up, thank you, Dave. Thank you, Andrew. It was awesome having you guys on. It's been, I know I'll speak for both of us to say that it's been great to connect with you guys both personally, but also on the podcasting side of things.

So I hope our audience enjoys this episode and checks out your show and adds it to their rotation. So thanks a lot for coming on. 

Andrew Sather: Thank you for having us. Yeah. 

Jason Hall: I have one final question. 

Jeff Santoro: You always have a final question. Like we're about to wrap up. 

Jason Hall: I do. 

Jeff Santoro: I do this nice little like professional sounding ending. And then you just like, throw a monkey wrench right in the middle.

Jason Hall: Why do you think, why do you think I do it?

Jeff Santoro: Because you're a jerk. 

Jason Hall: Bingo. There you go. So my question, my final question is you guys going to come back on our show sometime? 

Dave Ahern: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Jason Hall: Awesome. Awesome. I think we'd love to have that. I think our listeners would as well. 

And as always, we'd [00:38:00] like to wrap this up by reminding our listeners that Jeff and I love to give our answers to these hard investing questions. Have great, smart people like Dave and Andrew come on to give their answers as well. But it is up to you to find your answers to these questions. You can do it. I believe in you.

All right, Jeff, we'll see you next time. 

Jeff Santoro: See you next time.


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